【键盘侠】吹羊得分助攻均在前四|他和077都是球星养成的特例！

2020-01-22 18:57:44 我乐直播 www.wolezhibo.com

Trae Young has now jumped to 3rd in ppg with 29.2 (behind Harden and Giannis) and 4th in assist with 8.6.特雷-杨目前以场均得分29.2跃居到联盟第三位（仅次于哈登和字母哥），以场均8.6次助攻位列联盟助攻榜第四

Trae Young has now jumped to 3rd in ppg with 29.2 (behind Harden and Giannis) and 4th in assist with 8.6.

特雷-杨目前以场均得分29.2跃居到联盟第三位（仅次于哈登和字母哥），以场均8.6次助攻位列联盟助攻榜第四。

He is also not in the bottom 15 players in defensive rating.

而且他的防守效率值不在联盟倒数前15……

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[–]Lakers KeiserSoze24 27 指標 10小時前

I rem when this sub said he was a bust after 5 professional games...

湖人球迷：记得当初他打了5场NBA之后，这个论坛就说他是个水货吧……

[–][CLE] LeBron James Nickjames116425 6 指標 5小時前

I was absolutely a Trae Young hater last season because his terrible start but he’s playing amazingly on a shitty team this season. Respect.

骑士球迷：上赛季我是绝对的吹羊黑，因为他开局打得不好，不过他这赛季在一支烂队打得相当出色。瑞思拜！

[–]Bulls DavidManque 648 指標 9小時前

Players age 21 or younger to average at least 25 points and 5 assists in a season

Trae Young

Luka Doncic

LeBron James

Michael Jordan

公牛球迷：21岁以下能够单赛季场均至少25分5助的球员有：特雷-杨、东契奇、詹姆斯和乔丹。

[–]dorsdaddy 40 指標 7小時前

This is a solid list and all but let’s remember how the style of play has changed to accommodate for points. Shot attempts per game and 3 pointers per game are way up comparatively.

这个榜单还是很牛的，不过咱也别忘了，联盟的风格为了适应得分已经改变了很多。相较之下，现在的场均出手和三分出手提高了不少。

[–]Bulls DavidManque 49 指標 7小時前

Pace was high in the 70s, dropped to a low in the late 90s, and now is back up to its mid 80s levels. In Michael Jordan's rookie year (84-85) the average team scored 110.8 pts per game. This season the average team scores 110.5 pts per game.

公牛球迷：70年代的节奏是很快的，到了90年代默契就很低，现在又回到了80年代中期的水准。乔丹处子赛季（84/85赛季），联盟球队场均得分110.8.本赛季各队场均得分110.5

[–][UTA] Donovan Mitchell azzLife 11 指標 7小時前

Jordan's 21 year old season had a higher pace than today and waaaay higher than LeBron and Kobes 21 year old seasons.

爵士球迷：乔丹21岁那年的联盟节奏可比现在要快，而且也比科比和詹姆斯21那年要快很多。

[–]Hawks Gtsweet 17 指標 8小時前

I like this list.

老鹰球迷：我喜欢这个榜单。

[–]Grizzlies VariableBooleans 282 指標 7小時前

Ja will be 21 next season, could see him make this list next year too. Would be nuts

灰熊球迷：莫兰特下赛季就21了，我觉得他下赛季也会进这个榜单。那就太牛了。

[–]Bulls Skippy_the_Alien 113 指標 7小時前

he just needs to stay healthy at all costs. Look at what happened to D-Rose. Still makes me cry as a Bulls fan

公牛球迷：他只需要尽力保持健康就行。看看罗斯的经历吧。至今仍让我这个公牛球迷难受。

[–]Raptors milkplantation 65 指標 6小時前

D. Rose had significant biomechanics issues and played the game in a way that invited injury: Drives into contact, off balance contorted landings, one-footed landings instead of running or sliding them out.

We're seeing a similar storyline with Zion who has significant biomechanics issues and whose game also relies on athleticism and driving the paint. If Ja addresses his biomechanics and focuses on developing his skill and outside game over relying on his athleticism and initiating contact, there is no reason to think he would end up with the same fate as D.Rose.

猛龙球迷：罗斯当年的打法容易伤啊，有着严重的生物力学麻烦：突破制造碰撞、身体失衡扭曲落地、单腿着地，而不是滑出去或者跑起来。

锡安的打法依赖于运动能力，而且也杀内线，这和罗斯是很像的。如果莫兰特能减少这种违反力学的杀伤性打法，专注于磨炼个人技术和外线杀伤，而不是过分依靠个人运动天赋和制造身体碰撞，那他没理由会遇到和罗斯一样的命运。

[–][TOR] Norman Powell --God--- 290 指標 12小時前

He is also not in the bottom 15 players in defensive rating.

lol

猛龙球迷：“而且他的防守效率值不在联盟倒数前15”

哈哈哈哈哈

[–]Hawks humancartograph 291 指標 10小時前

This tells me without looking that he's definitely in the bottom 20, though.

老鹰球迷：听到这话，我看都不用看就知道他肯定在倒数前20.

[–]Bucks dassads 143 指標 11小時前

Trae is going to end up #2 in scoring by seasons end. And for people who really think he puts up empty numbers watch the 2nd half of the last Bucks vs Hawks game. Trae got injured and the Hawks looked like a fucking G-league team. He's everything to that team.

雄鹿球迷：吹羊的场均得分到了赛季末的时候会排在第二的。至于那些说他空砍的人，你们好好看看12月末雄鹿打老鹰下半场的比赛。吹羊受伤之后，老鹰就像发展联盟球队一样，他就是老鹰的全部。

[–][PHI] Joel Embiid bronet 54 指標 10小時前

He's really good, but to be fair they almost look like a G league team even with him not injured

76人球迷：吹羊确实厉害，不过也别吹过了，不管他伤不伤，老鹰就是发展联盟水平。

[–][CHI] Jimmer Fredette Liquidgoldvelveeta 35 指標 12小時前

Get this mf some help

公牛球迷：赶紧给吹羊找个帮手啊！

[–]Hawks hrtattx 69 指標 10小時前

he's fine.

we'll have a high lottery pick + nets 1st this year.

chandler parsons, evan turner come off the books after this season. highest paid player next year is deandre hunter at $7m.

老鹰球迷：他OK的。我们这赛季会得到高位选秀签和篮网的首轮签。

而且这赛季过后，帕森斯、特纳都会走人。下赛季薪资最高的人也就是亨特的700万。

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[–][DAL] Dirk Nowitzki krdskrm9 26 指標 11小時前

This means Trae is good and the Hawks are worse than shit.

独行侠球迷：这说明吹羊厉害，老鹰连屎都不如！

[–]See PeaEwe 471 指標 12小時前

Idc about their record Trae is good. The team is just trash around him. Look at D-Lo who is in pretty much the exact same situation, putting up worse numbers than Trae

老鹰战绩咋样我不清楚，不过吹羊还是强。老鹰这配置简直是垃圾。看看几乎和他相同处境的拉塞尔，数据还不如吹羊呢。

[–]Mavericks BroiledGoose 47 指標 11小時前

I get your point but D-Lo doesn't have anyone close to Collins level.

All he has is a half-trying Draymond and a bunch of decent bench guys

独行侠球迷：我理解你意思，不过拉塞尔的队友水平远比不上老鹰的科林斯这种吧。

拉塞尔的帮手就是半个追梦和一帮替补。

[–]Hawks RorschachRedd 129 指標 11小時前

Collins has played like 8 games this season

老鹰球迷：科林斯这赛季大概就打了8场而已……

[–]Mavericks BroiledGoose 84 指標 11小時前

(15 games) And the Hawks have over 50% of their total wins with him in the lineup.

With Collins your team is not the absurdly bad team that the guy above is implying

独行侠球迷：是15场，而且他在的时候，老鹰的胜率是过半的。

科林斯能打的时候，你鹰不是那种没有下限地菜。

[–]Bulls jkure2 265 指標 11小時前

The Hawks are so obviously not a contender. They were not built to contend at this moment.

Anyone who is using that to criticize a player that was drafted there - with no input or opportunity to play somewhere else - is a complete fool.

公牛球迷：很明显，老鹰现在不是冲击季后赛的球队。他们眼下也没有为争冠而打造球队。

要是谁用他们的战绩去抨击他们选中的新秀，说他到了其他球队打不上球，那就是彻底的蠢货。

[–]Hawks Hugo_5t1gl1tz 154 指標 10小時前*

On the other hand, our “lineup of the future”, Trae, JC, Huerter, Hunter, and Reddish, have a net rating of like +25. They’ve just hardly played on the floor together due to injuries and doping

老鹰球迷：另一方面呢，我们这套“未来的阵容”有，吹羊、科林斯、亨特、许尔特和雷迪什，他们在一起时的净效率值大概是+25。只是因为伤病和药物原因，他们都没啥机会一起打球。

[–]Celtics SaintLeppy 20 指標 8小時前

Kemba put up great numbers for years on a shit losing team. We’re still probably not a contender but there was no denying he was a great player and that’s why we picked him up.

凯尔特人球迷：沃克之前也是常年在一支烂队打出漂亮的数据。我们目前也许还不是争冠球队，不过不可否认的是，沃克是个伟大的球员，所以我们才会要他。

[–][LAL] Shannon Brown AdolescentThug 10 指標 7小時前

We’re still probably not a contender

Y'all are 4th in the East and Hayward finally looks like himself on the court. Stop underselling yourselves lol. Celtics could easily make the finals if they match up well or someone valuable on the Bucks/Sixers/Heat gets injured.

湖人球迷：“我们目前也许还不是争冠球队”

你们已经是东部第四了，而且海沃德也找回了感觉。可别再装孙子了，哈哈哈。要是碰上合适的对手，或者是雄鹿、76人、热火这些队里有某个重要球员受伤，那凯尔特人轻松进总决赛。

[–]Celtics SaintLeppy 6 指標 7小時前

Let me be an underdog we play better like that lol. But you’re 100% right we could get to the finals of the pieces fall into place and I’m really hopeful for that. It’s also weird a lakers flair hyping me up but shouts out you bro we need the lakers celts finals again for decades to come

凯尔特人球迷：就让我装弱者呗，我们这样会打的好些，哈哈哈。不过你说的没错，我们要是全员发力的话，真能进总决赛。我也真心希望如此。

再说了，看到你这个湖蜜这么捧我们还是挺奇怪的，不过还是感谢老铁，咱们需要在十多年后再次看到湖凯打总决赛！

[–][CLE] LeBron James knightvillian 17 指標 10小時前

I actually think the hawks and Trae are doing the right thing. He gets to ball out and see if he can win some impossible games, while at the same time not compromising draft position. They might get wiseman. Look at the Melo Lebron drafts their team was too good and couldn’t get a good draft position because of it

骑士球迷：我真觉得老鹰和吹羊目前所做的是正确的。他打得风生水起，然后看看能不能带队赢下一些不可能拿下的比赛，同时又不会影响球队的选秀顺位。老鹰也许能得到怀斯曼。看看当初选中老詹和安东尼之后的球队，他们第二年打得太好了，后面就没能拿到一个不错的选秀顺位。

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[–]ohnoacracka 930 指標 11小時前

Crazy how Trae and Luka have exploded second year while Lakers had three straight number 2s and they didnt do shit second year

离奇的事，吹羊和东契奇的第二年打得这么好，可是湖人之前那三个榜眼的第二年却没啥发挥。

[–]Bulls Kozymodo 7 指標 8小時前

Those two are complete outliers. No one is supposed to be that good that early. Ingrams progression is what's often typical for a developing star player.

公牛球迷：吹羊和东契奇完全是特例啊。不能指望新秀早早打出出色表现。英格拉姆的发展轨迹才是球员培养的主流。

[–]Thunder thisguy2164 16 指標 11小時前

2018 was a very special draft

雷霆球迷：而且2018届新秀是很特殊的

[–]Mavericks BroiledGoose 294 指標 11小時前

That draft just had an absurd amount of talent

独行侠球迷：那届选秀涌现出了大量天才。

[–]Barriston_davos 513 指標 11小時前

Well looking at what Ingram is doing now, I would say that the lakers culture isnt really built for young players to be at their best.

行吧，那看看英格拉姆这赛季的表现，我觉得是湖人的球队文化不适合年轻球员成长。

[–]Lakers whiskeynrye 22 指標 11小時前

Well then you would be wrong because he was doing this last year before he was injured.

湖人球迷：那你可说错了，因为莺歌上赛季受伤前也是这种表现。

[–]thelogoat44 22 指標 9小時前

Or maybe he just improved??? He was improving every year in la as well

或者也许只是莺歌进步了？他之前在洛杉矶也是年年有进步。

[–]Barriston_davos 17 指標 9小時前

Ya except now when he has an off game, first take and fs1 and undisputed arent talking abt which team they should trade him to and what they'll get back in return. It's hard to play your game with trade rumours and a media circus every night

对啊，要不可以这么说，他现在有一场发挥失常的时候，不会立马有人站出来说要交易他，要拿他换谁谁谁。被交易流言和媒体包围的时候，你是很难打好比赛的。

[–]ohnoacracka 204 指標 10小時前

Maybe but still, some guys just have "it" and Trae, Doncic, Morant now show it immediately. BI is good now on a bad team but even his first year he never showed that "it"

或许是这样，不过话说回来了，有些球员就是有那个“天分”，吹羊、东契奇和莫兰特立马就显现出来了。莺歌现在在一支菜队打得很好，不过即便是他的处子赛季，也没有显现过那种“天分”。

[–]Barriston_davos 74 指標 10小時前

The it factor only matters for elite players. Doesnt really matter for a very good starter or role player or even half of the all star caliber players. It's still important to develop them properly though because they can still be a big part of the team

“天分”这种东西只在顶级球员身上管用。放到那些实力强劲的普通首发或角色球员，甚至是半数的全明星球员身上就不适用了。适当地培养他们还是很重要的，因为他们依然能够成为球员的关键角色。

[–]ohnoacracka 10 指標 10小時前

LAL badly needed BI to be an "it" player, they were hoping for the next KD. Same with Zo and D'Lo. I just wish ONE of them had developed like these other guys

湖人当初迫切地需要莺歌成为那种“天分型”球员，他们希望他成为下一个杜兰特。就跟他们对鲍尔和拉塞尔的期望一样。我就希望他们能有一个可以像其他新秀一样正常成长。

[–]Jazz docnarfid 54 指標 9小時前

People sometimes put too much emphasis on elite players. What I mean by this is that very good players & role players are needed for team success. Guys who understand their limitations and play to their strengths are so valuable. Ingram is an all-star caliber player right now at 22. He has all-NBA potential. not everyone is Doncic right away, and that's okay.

爵士球迷：大家有时候把顶级球员看得太重了些。球队的成功也是需要那些优秀球员和角色球员的。那些明白自己的短板而且能打出长处的球员是很有价值的。22岁的莺歌现在就是一个全明星球员，他具备进入赛季最佳阵的潜力。不是每个人都能立马成为东契奇。

[–]Baconmazing 55 指標 11小時前

Lakers have a great scouting department. But yeah they just don't have a development culture. It's funny to see that combination, being able to pick good players but not give them the opportunity to grow.

Most Lakers success comes from blockbuster trades or free agency signings, so I understand being underdeveloped in your young player development.

湖人的球探体系很棒。不过他们确实没有一个适应球员成长的文化。他们能选中好球员，可是不给他们机会成长，挺有意思的。

湖人的大多数成功源自于重磅交易或者是自由市场签约，所以我也能理解他们在球员培养工作上的不到位。

[–]ohnoacracka 34 指標 10小時前*

TBF.... LAL last say 20 years plus has done pretty well getting solid players from lower first or second round picks: Van Exel (2nd), Eddie Jones, Kuzma, Zubac, Clarkson, Nance, Marc Gasol (2nd), Jordan Farmar, Vuja?i?, Luke Walton (2nd), Derek Fisher, George Lynch, Anthony Peeler, Elden Campbell, Vlade, (also drafted Pat Beverly)

They just haven't done well developing higher lottery picks like Randle and the three straight 2nds but maybe that's a function of not having many in the last 25 years basically. Basically since Magic and Worthy were drafted number 1 I don't they've had many top lottery picks

有一说一，湖人过往20多年是很擅长在首轮末位或者是二轮秀中淘宝的：范-埃克塞尔（二轮秀）、埃迪-琼斯、库兹马、祖巴茨、克拉克森、南斯、小加索尔（二轮签）、法玛尔、武贾西奇、卢克-沃顿（二轮签）、费舍尔、乔治-林奇、安东尼-皮勒、埃尔登-坎贝尔、迪瓦茨。（贝弗利也是被他们选中的）

他们只是在培养兰德尔和那三个榜眼秀这种高位签方面做得不好，或许是因为过往25年高位签不多的缘故。基本上自从魔术师和沃西被选为状元之后，湖人就没多少高位签。

[–]shortyman920 61 指標 10小時前

This is either a bad or misleading observation.

Lukas and Traes are exceptions, not the rules. Most 18-19 year olds, no matter how talented and potential-filled, do not dominate within their first 2 years in the league. Lakers drafted the consensus #2s in their 3 drafts and none of them are busts, though the jury is still out on Lonzo. D'Lo is already a max player, and BI is looking like he'll become one. These aren't busts lol. They simply needed their 4th years after some injury and developmental hiccups to become the players they are today, and that is normal for star talent.

If Lakers had the chance to draft Luka #2, they would've done so.

你这话是误读。

东契奇和吹羊是特例，不是常态。大多数十八九岁的年轻人不管天赋怎样，都不会在进入联盟的头两个赛季打出统治力。湖人那三届选秀选中的榜眼都是公认的，没有一个是水货，虽说鲍尔还有待评判。拉塞尔已经是个顶薪球员，莺歌也有这个趋势，这俩可不是水货。他们就是需要在经历过伤病和成长之后在进入联盟第四年成为如今这种球员，这才是球星养成的常态。

如果湖人有机会用榜眼签选中东契奇，他们也会这么培养的。

————————

[–]Bulls monolith17 307 指標 12小時前

Do people realize in Kevin Durant’s 2nd nba season/3rd year out of high school, his team was god awful?

We get on Devin booker because it’s year 5. We got on Demarcus cousins because it was like year 7.

公牛球迷：你们知道吗？杜兰特在NBA的第二和第三个赛季，当时的雷霆也是非常烂。

咱们如今能看到布克的出色表现，那是因为这是他在联盟的第五年。考辛斯也是到了第七个赛季才有的那种统治力。

[–][LAL] Shaquille O'Neal GoSuckYouMudda 185 指標 12小時前

Brah you’re supposed to come in and immediately take your team to the playoffs no matter the talent. LeBron does. So should Trae /s

湖人球迷：老哥，新秀就该进联盟过后立马把球队带进季后赛，不管其他队友是啥天赋。（狗头）詹姆斯是这样，吹羊也该这样。

[–]Hawks soullessgingerfck 113 指標 10小時前

Except Lebron didn't make the playoffs til his third year.

Then made the playoffs every year, including dragging some terrible Cavs teams, until he got to that horrible Lakers young core last year and had them all traded away.

老鹰球迷：可老詹是进入联盟第三个赛季才进的季后赛，然后年年都进，其中还包括有些年很烂的骑士队。直到他上赛季遇上湖人这歇菜的年轻核心球员，然后全送走了。

[–]Lakers baabaabilly 20 指標 8小時前

We didn’t make POs last year cuz he got injured, that was the main reason.

湖人球迷：我们上赛季没进季后赛的主要原因是老詹受伤了。

[–]Lakers imperabo 8 指標 8小時前

And Lonzo got injured and Ingram got injured. Seemed like any time a key guy got hot and was driving the team to victories he got injured.

湖人球迷：而且鲍尔和莺歌也伤了。感觉每次我们有谁打出感觉、带队取胜的时候，他就伤了。

[–]nbamodssuckdick 19 指標 8小時前

True, but Lebron was missing the playoffs with 35 and 42 wins. A guy like Booker has never won 25 games in what is now his 6th season.

确实啊，老詹生涯头两年没进季后赛的球队战绩也是35胜和42胜。布克这种球员可从没带队有过单赛季25胜的战绩。

[–]Suns JFZephyr 34 指標 9小時前

Idk how Book catches so much heat when the best player he's ever teamed with since exploding in production is TJ fucking Warren. KD had Russ, Harden and Ibaka. People move the goal posts 24/7 for this shit. If you're gonna flame Book, flame Trae too. Zach too, that Bulls squad shouldn't be this awful. How bout Hield and Fox, they get free passes too?

Wild.

太阳球迷：不知道为啥你就这么瞧不起布克，他数据爆发后合作过的最强队友是特么TJ-沃伦啊。阿杜当时有威少、哈登和伊巴卡。要是你们想喷布克，那也带上吹羊，还有拉文，这支公牛阵容不该这么菜吧。希尔德和福克斯怎么说，他们就不粘锅了？

胡扯。

[–]Hawks House_of_Borbon 91 指標 11小時前

Even MJ’s Bulls had a losing record in his 3rd year, and he had a 37/5/5/3/2 stat line playing all 82 games lol. People seriously underrate the impact the other 12-14 players have on a team.

老鹰球迷：即便是乔丹时期的公牛也在他进入联盟的第三年有过很长的输球纪录，他整个赛季还场均37分5板5助呢，哈哈哈。很多人真的是太看不起队里其他12-14个人的影响力了。

[–]Cavaliers Dysfu 29 指標 10小時前

And that’s why I think what Lebron did was so amazing for the Cavs

骑士球迷：所以我才觉得老詹当初在骑士的成就是如此地了不起

[–][CHI] Jimmy Butler NotoriousVader 31 指標 9小時前

the early cavs for sure. those 2014-18 cavs were pretty stacked outside of the last year.

公牛球迷：他初期在骑士肯定是了不起的。14-18年那会儿，除了最后一个赛季，当时的骑士还是兵强马壮的。

[–]yoyowatup 7 指標 8小時前

They were not stacked at all in 18 and in 15 they lost their second and third best player. So they were really only stacked in 16 and 17.

他们在17/18赛季和14/15赛季压根就不是兵强马壮，队里的第二和第三强点都没了。所以他们在15/16和16/17赛季确实人手充足。

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来源：Reddit

编译：云长刮个痧

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